Minutes 1986/11/24
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November 24, 1986
Special Meeting
Gilroy, California
Mayor Hughan led the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Posting
The City Clerk reported that the Agenda had been posted on
November 18, 1986 at 11:25 a.m.
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Roll Call
POA
Hearing
Present: Councilmembers: Sharon A. Albert, Donald F. Gage,
Paul V. Kloecker, Larry Mussallem, Daniel D. Palmerlee, Pete
Valdez, Jr. and Roberta H. Hughan. (7:03 p.m.)
Mayor Hughan stated that it was the time and place
scheduled for a hearing to consider setting compensation for the
City's Police Unit.
Mayor Hughan noted that because of the failure of negotia-
tions the City Council is considering taking unilateral action in
setting compensation for the sworn officers and non-sworn
personnel of the Police Department. She further noted that as a
result of this proposed action there was a request from the
Police Officers' Association for this hearing.
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Mayor Hughan made the following comments before proceeding
with the hearing: She noted available copies for the public of a
current salary survey for the 1980 original 10 cities and 7 city
survey of cities of comparable size to Gilroy; copies of the
press release compiled several weeks ago; and a copy of the 2-
year package that constitutes this particular MOU. She further
noted charts on the wall prepared by the City Staff and that any
of this materials is available.
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The Mayor opened the Hearing and requested the audience
refrain from clapping, etc. after each individual speaker. She
further noted that following the speaker's presentation she will
inquire if anyone in the audience wishes to support the speakers
by standing and clapping at that time. She noted that the City
Council is willing to take the required time necessary in order
to clarify all issues. She noted that the issue is not what the
Council thinks of its Police Department. She stated that the
Council thinks highly of its Police Officers and that salary
negotiations have to take place in every city. She further
stated that the Council is very appreciative of the work the
Police Department does and how its officers serve the City. She
further stated that the Council is considering what they can
afford to pay, what is fair, what is competitive, and Council
needs to see what the actual compensation is when the entire
benefit package is taken into account. Based on Council's
instructions to their negotiating team and for the record, the
compensation proposed is as follows:
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For Sworn Officers: 1) The 2% at 50 police retirement plan
to go into effect January 1, 1987; 2) The City will pay an
additional 3.25% of the employees' retirement contribution obli-
gation (max. 9%) effective January 1, 1987; 3) A bonus of
$938.00 per employee to make up the difference in cost between
the above and the cost of implementing the retirement plan change
on July 1st as called for in the current agreement, noting that
the plan implementation was delayed by mutual agreement and
because of not being able to get the PERS package put together.
For the Non-Sworn Members of the Police Department: 1) An
additional 3 1/4% PERS payment effective January 1, 1987; 2) A
cash bonus equivalent to 3 1/4% of salary from July 1st to
December 31st, to make up the difference between July and
January.
The Mayor called upon the City's negotiator, Mr. Bill Avery
to give some history of the negotiations.
Mr. Bill Avery addressed the Council and noted that they
have not been successful in completing negotiations under the re-
opener in the 2nd year of the two-year agreement with the Police
Association. He noted that the first meeting was in June and the
last mediation session in October. He further noted that he was
optimistic in mid-September that they had an agreement. He noted
that basically came about when the City largely accepted a pro-
posal advanced by the Association Attorney...A proposal that had
two options. He noted that the City accepted both of those two
options; the employee association however did not. He noted that
thus, there was no agreement at that time. Since then he noted
that they have met again to try and find other ways to reach an
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agreement; they have not been able to do so. He noted that in
the absence of that agreement he stated that they are recommend-
ing implementation of the 2% at 50 retirement plan, effective
January 1, 1987, futher noting that it was agreed to delay
implementation of that plan by mutual agreement. He noted due to
that delay they are also recommending the payment of 3 1/4%
additional employee retirement contribution for the sworn members
of the Department; payment of that contribution for the non-sworn
from January forward and then equivalent cash payment for them
for the period from July through December. And because those two
items cost less and simply implementing the 2% at 50 retirement
plan effective July, a cash bonus to the sworn members of the
Department to make up the difference and that difference is
$938.00. He noted that had they simply implemented the 2% at 50
retirement plan in July, the employees would have been obligated
to pay the 3 1/4% out of their pocket. That cost plus the
absence of the $938.00 bonus would have been a difference to each
sworn employee of about $2000.00 over the one year. He noted
that they agreed to delay the implementation of the 2% at 50 and
their attempts to work out a reasonable settlement have led to
the modification and the City's position and refiguring the
package to make up that $2,000.00 to the employee. He noted that
this negotiation has focused around the issue of parity; that is,
fair compensation. The employees, the Association want fair
compensation; the City wants to pay fair compensation. He noted
that their unfortunate difficulty has been getting an agreement
on just what fairness is in this particular case. He noted that
the Association is currently defining parity as looking at the
salary and retirement pick-up of all the police agencies in Santa
Clara County except Sunnyvale and the Sheriff's Department. He
noted that the City has consistently held that they are willing
to look at compensation data for those agencies, but that they
think other factors are involved in a decision as to what parity
or fair compensation is. He noted that those other factors in-
clude internal salary relationships, that is among the different
City employee groups, supervisory and management differentials,
the City's Budget, total compensation, that is the cost of all
direct wages and benefits, not just salary. He noted that he
thinks it particularly appropriate in a year when a significant
improvement is being made in the retirement plan to realize that
all benefits have costs, not just salary. He noted that the City
has consistently held for the past several years that we need to
look at other agencies other than simply those in Santa Clara
County. He noted that they have presented data along those lines
at least for the past four years. He noted that they have up-
dated, some of the survey data used in this and other negotia-
tions, and that data he noted, is on charts behind him. He first
noted the old ten city comparison. He noted that reference has
been made to commitments the City made in 1980. He noted that
said contract has expired but what it provided for was the total
compensation comparison of ten agencies, listed behind him. The
agencies of Santa Clara, Milpitas, Palo Alto, Mountain View, Los
Gatos, Los Altos, Campbell, Morgan Hill, Salinas and Watsonv-
ville. He noted that the contract provided for Gilroy Police
being brought to the average compensation of those agencies at
the end of the three year contract. He noted that with data as
of last Friday, November 21, taking into account the January 1
adjustments for the Association were 1.2% behind on total com-
pensation or virtually at the average. He noted that agencies
that the City uses in setting the salary ranges for its manage-
ment personnel are reflected in the other chart or what has been
called the "7 City." He noted that those are agencies which are
felt to be approximately Gilroy's size and are geographically
closest to Gilroy. He noted that the reason the group of
agencies is taken instead of simply those of Santa Clara County,
is it is felt that agencies in its geographic area more
accurately reflect cost of living here, than the City of Santa
Clara or the City of Palo Alto. Money's only value is in what it
buys and you do need to take a look at the cost of things when
you decide what salary value should have. He noted that although
the City uses the City of Hollister in setting ranges for
management personnel, for our purposes, let's drop Hollister
out. Looking at those same agencies show us to be 9.6% ahead on
salary; 9.3% ahead on total compensation. He noted that it has
not been their position that they wish to ridgedly establish a
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new formula here. Rather they're saying that formulas aren't
appropriate in any case; that all data is appropriate to look
at. He noted that they don't however, agree that they are paying
unfair salaries if they simply don't meet the averages of county
agencies, which probably don't very accurately reflect the cost
of living here. He noted that this is a two-year agreement, when
implemented it totals salary adjustments of 6 1/2%, pick-up of
employee's contribution of 3 1/4%, or total of slightly over 15%,
that is not counting either the increases in medical insurance
given over the last two years or the one time cash bonus. He
noted with average wage adjustments and California Public
Agencies, the last two years, running in the 3-5 percent range,
they think it is clear that it is a very competitive package
adjustment and looking at agencies simply beyond those in Santa
Clara County they feel that it does result in fair compensa-
tion to the employees. He asked if there were any questions.
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The Mayor asked if there were any questions of Mr. Avery by
the City Councilmembers.
Councilman Kloecker noted that he believes it important
that Mr. Avery outline for the record the two alternatives which
were presented to the Council and, in turn, gave Mr. Avery direc-
tion to proceed on both or either one which might be acceptable.
Mr. Avery noted that the alternatives were on simply a one
year agreement to implement the 2% at 50 and pick up the 3 1/4%
employer retirement contribution November 1, or in the
alternative to move those adjustments to January in the first
year of the two year agreement with the second year providing
for, depending on cost of living, either a 5 or 6% across the
board increase. In fairness the original proposal from the
Association Attorney was that calling for a flat 6% adjustment in
the second year and they discussed the possibility of changing to
5 or 6% based on cost of living and that was accepted.
The Mayor asked if there were any other questions of Mr.
Avery. There was no comment. The Mayor asked if there was a POA
spokesperson. She also requested that Mr. Avery keep track of
any questions in his area to respond to.
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Officer Robert Cooke, POA Negotiation Chairman, addressed
the Council and commented that 5 or 6% raise was to take place on
the very last day of the contract, June 30 of next year. He
stated that they hoped to open up the communications gap that
they haven't had with Council when negotiations began. He noted
that it is the opinion of the Association that negotiations were
put off this year or delayed. He noted that they didn't even
begin until June and by then they should have already reached an
agreement or at least have been close. He noted that they had a
lot of problems in discussions within the Association about the
tactics employed during the meetings this year and some included
the following: problems of hearing some sort of an agreement that
they had entered into confidentiality with the people on the
City's negotiating team and he noted that they did not. He noted
that they were told by Mr. Avery that the Council did not want to
negotiate directly with the POA, and that it was suggested that
the Council would not listen to them and did not want any contact
with them. He noted that they were also asked to not speak with
members of the media and that was another problem. He noted that
the association members felt that they were being cut off from
everybody concerned. He noted that they never entered into that
agreement and made that clear, but somebody from the City's
negotiating team told the newspaper that they did have an agree-
ment of confidentiality and noted that same person was quoted in
the newspaper that they have not reached impasse after they had
reached impasse. He noted that was really tearing into them and
couldn't understand how come the City would now think they were
at impasse when there at the same table with them, was the State
mediator. He noted that as far as putting off the implementation
data, the CHP retirement plan, they didn't have much choice in
that matter. He noted that the study that was done, was done
late and believes that most of that is the fault of the PERS
retirement system. He noted that they were suppose to get the
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CHP plan, regardless of what happened by July 1 of this year, and
they didn't get it. He noted that every time that they met all
they heard was the CHP plan, and that they just couldn't give it
to us yet; can you put it off; can you put it off? and that's
all they discussed. He noted that it became so disgusting having
to put up with this at every single meeting; talked for hours on
end about implementing the CHP Plan and the great cost it was
going to impose upon the City, that the members were getting up
in arms, asking why are you still discussing this. We told them
that we didn't know. But every time we had a meeting, that's all
we talked about and it was something we already negotiated. He
noted that a raise was never offered at any of the negotiating
meetings; not once. He noted that when they went in to begin
negotiating, they put down what they wanted and all they heard
was, well we want you to put off the CHP Plan, it's a lot of
money. He noted that at the first couple of meetings they
couldn't even get an answer as to how much? He noted that they
couldn't get a copy of the budget, had a hard time getting that;
took some doing. He noted that their membership was upset at the
first or second meeting by one of the negotiating members telling
them that they should'nt need or ask for a raise, that he gets by
just fine on what he makes. He noted that was like a slap in the
face. He noted that this employee has since got a raise and he
doesn't believe that he turned it down, even though he didn't
need it. He spoke to the parity of the other cities, noting that
it has historically since 1980 been used when they believed that
they had a good contract and they had hoped to maintain that
parity and being a comparative police agency as far as attracting
qualified and experienced people. He noted that since that
contract has expired they have fallen behind again in what they
considered parity and what is considered to be competitive. He
noted that they hired a number of qualified and experienced
people from other surrounding agencies that have come to work
here and have stayed. He noted that they came to work here
because they saw what we were getting and they were very
interested and it was very competitive at that time. He noted
that now the gap is widening and we can't attract qualified
experienced people any more. He noted that on the last exam
eight people showed up for the test. When he tested in 1979 he
noted that he was a lateral and had to compete against 50 or 60
applicants. He noted that it's the opinion of the POA that in
essence what we're doing is dropping our standards. He noted
that if we can't pay to get the good experienced people, we'll
pay to get the inexperienced. That's fine, we do have some good
people that have come to work here that were inexperienced, but
it does cost the City a lot more money. He noted that Sgt.
Guisiana will explain that and the cost involved in hiring a
rookie, someone that has to go through the academy and what it
costs for a training period. He noted that those on the nego-
tiating team know that the 6 1/2% so-called raise because 3% was
received in one point in time and then six months later another 3
1/2%. So over the life of the contract, or over the year that
was actually less than 5% (4.8). He noted that that was disputed
back and forth across the negotiating table, but don't know if
the Council was aware as to how it was looked at. He noted that
they have never asked to be the highest paid law enforcement
agency in the County; never once. Neither have they asked or do
they expect to be the lowest paid agency in this County. And the
longer they wait to get parity or comparable worth the further
and further behind they slip. He noted that they don't want to
get into another situation like in 1980, so far behind that the
City Council was afraid they were going to burst if they paid us
what was considered to be fair and parity at that time. He noted
that even at that time in the 3 yr. contract they didn't quite
reach parity, they were within 1 1/2%, but the problem of it was
they got to reach parity, they were almost at parity at June
30th; July 1st every other single city with maybe the exception
of one, was negotiating again for a new contract and for another
raise on that day, the day after their last raise. So he noted
that all the other cities got their raises a day after Gilroy got
their raises. So on January 1 they were moving up again and
Gilroy is falling behind again. He noted that's what happened
when they got the 6 1/2% indicated on the chart; the raise was
split so it widen the gap a little further. He noted that most
of the people in the audience are members of their association.
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He further noted that there were people from the Sheriff's
Office, people living in the City, merchants, employee of the
State Parole Board, people from the Fire Department. He further
noted that there is no one saying that they don't like the job
and don't like doing what they are doing; but there's not too
many jobs where a person can get as much in the form of rewards
as they get. He noted that it's about one night in four now
where some times it can be a life or death struggle. He noted
that the PCP problem in this City is so severe that he is tired
of having to fight and chase down people who are under the
influence of drugs. He noted that when he comes back and sits
down he thinks I could have really got hurt and could I get by on
what my salary could give me. He noted that if the City thinks
he is really worth it then let him make what the other people in
this area make. They are fighting the same problems that they
are. As far as Mr. Avery said, that all data should be included
in his comparisons, the one major item that was left out was the
attrition rate. He noted that he taught part-time at the Central
Coast Police Academy for a long time and can remember seeing six
people, all at one time from Watsonville Police Department, all
going through the academy together; all rookies and no experi-
ience. Two got dumped - flunked out. It meant they had to go
rehire again. Seaside constantly has people going through the
academy at great expense to the City. It's at least $40,000.00
to put somebody through the academy. Hollister, it's a joke.
Mr. Avery knows how many people they're hiring. Constantly
hiring. Santa Cruz is constantly hiring. Monterey has some
serious internal problems right now. Santa Cruz in a constant
state of hiring. Morgan Hill, up until very recently has been
lower paid than the City of Gilroy in going through people. He
stated that he would like to defer to Greg Guisiana.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions of Officer
Cooke. There were no comments.
Sergeant Greg Guisiana addressed the Council and noted that
he has been employed with the City for 13 years. He noted that
he has been a sergeant for the last 2 years, during which he has
been assigned to the administrative unit of the department. He
noted that he was asked to speak because he was directly involved
with the negotiations and the contract in '79 and '80. He noted
that the issue of their parity was brought up at that time,
initially. He noted that all the Council are new with the
exception of Mayor Hughan; and therefore desires to bring some
background into this discussion. First of all he refers to the
department in 1979. He noted that they did a survey at that time
to determine how many of the people in the department had
experience; 27 people, ten had less than 3 yrs. experience and 17
had under 5 years. Which works out to 63% of their employees
under 5 years. He noted that a check of the roster at that time
shows that of those officers who were working with under 3 years
of experience, none of them had previous experience. They had
all come on as new officers with the department. He noted that
currently they have 24 patrolmen and refers to them because those
are the recent hires. Of the 24 patrolmen 10 are laterals, 42%
came to the Gilroy Police Department with experience from other
agencies. The difference if they come with experience or not -
excluding the time it takes to hire, if an officer is hired with
no experience and no academy training, he is sent to 14 weeks of
Central Coast County Police Academy. When he is a graduate of
the academy he's brought on to the department and put through 12
more weeks of field training; or a total of 26 weeks training -
1/2 year; 6 months training time just to get the officer ready to
work on his own. That's 6 months of unproductive time for the
City, paying and supporting this officer without getting any
return. He noted that in addition to that, the time spent with
the field training officer, his intense training, which takes
away from the field officer's ability to perform his job. In
other words, the field training officer can't do his job ascan't
do his job as efficiently because he is not only doing his job
but he is training someone else to do it. So efficiency is lost
and the department is not as efficient as it would have been if
the officer had some experience. He noted that when lateral
officers are hired they know the job. They are put through 9
weeks of training with the field training officer, but for the
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most part it's just familiarizing him with City procedures and
the town and effectively his performance of his job as a law
enforcement officer is almost already up to standard when he
first comes on. He noted if the 10 officers with under 3 years
of experience are looked at, that means a rotation of almost 2
officers a year. Two officers a year out of sworn officers that
are being rotated through and hiring and training would pay for
more positions if they would come on with experience. He
referred to what it would cost to hire an officer and noted that
he spoke to Lieutenant Davidson at Monterey County Sheriff's
Office, because they had done a survey on this. He noted that
their hiring costs, bringing a person on board and sending them
through the academy is $40,000.00. He noted that the Police
Association is trying to get a pay raise and trying to get a
level of compensation where they can keep their personnel; where
they don't have to go through constant rehiring. He noted that
they feel that it's penny wise and pound short to be hiring and
hiring and having personnel leave. He noted that there's another
aspect that has to be looked at and that is what does the public
feel about the department. He noted that since they have been
drawing more people into the department with experience they feel
that they have become a much more professional police depart-
ment. He noted that the Chief of Police sends out letters to
people that the police officers contact and asks them those
questions to determine what kind of job they are doing. In the
last survey 99% of the people when asked did the officer perform
his job in a professional manner; 99% said yes. 99% responded
that the officer did an average or above average job in dealing
with their problem. 74% feel that the officer handled his call
well, and an additional 25% felt that it was at least average.
He noted that they feel that they are professional because they
are gaining experience; they are bringing people who know what
they are doing. They are not going through this constant unknown
of hiring someone who has no experience. He noted that in addi-
tion during the period when they had come close to reaching their
parity, they were capable of drawing in laterals officers to test
and were hiring exclusively laterals. He noted that the last
three officers hired, only one was a lateral; two had gone
through the academy but had not had experience at all; they were
brought on from ranks of the reserves. He noted that they feel
they are seeing a slipping back. They went from where they
couldn't hire any laterals to where they were hiring exclusively
laterals; now they are slipping back to where they are having to
drop their standards and go for just people from the academy with
no experience. He noted that they are getting back into that
realm of unknown again. He noted for that reason, they need for
the City and the Police Association, to get a fair and equitable
raise within the areas of the people they are competing with to
hire officers.
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Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions of Sgt.
Guisiana. There was no comment.
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Officer Joe Ramirez, addressed the Council on behalf of the
POA. He noted that he is currently assigned to the Detective
Division. He noted that he like many of his fellow officers,
came to Gilroy with prior police experience and are referred to
as lateral officers. He noted that they came to Gilroy for a
whole variety of reasons, but the common denominator in all of
them coming over here was the competitive wage. He noted that
the last few years they have been having problems. He noted that
they want to make Council aware of their concerns, because Coun-
cil is the only one that can solve these problems. He noted that
last year, they have been losing ground with other law enforce-
ment agencies in this County. He referred to the problems noted
by Sgt. Guisiana of recruiting qualified personnel. He noted
that the City is in danger of losing some experienced people. He
noted that they have attracted a lot of young, professional,
agressive police officers, which is great for the City and great
for the Police Department, but it is hard getting promoted when
there are no openings in the promotional list. He noted there's
no where to go. He further noted that he works with a lot of
sharp guys. At any other agency they would be in line for
promotions. He noted there's no way to go up the ladder. Lower
their expectations on wage parity and you give them an excuse to
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jump right into the arms of a waiting police agency. He noted
that Gilroy is a city in transition; we are no longer the sleepy
agricultural base community at the south end of the County. He
noted that Gilroy is competing right along with the other Silicon
cities and you know that the competition is tough. He noted that
most of the citizens work up in the Silicon Valley; they know
competition is tough. He further noted that we take our direc-
tion from the north. He noted that they don't see anything
progressive coming from the east, the south or the west. Santa
Clara County is the cutting edge for professionalism in law
enforcement. He noted that allover the country they are looking
what's going on in this county - parity. He noted that they have
embraced parity. It's not today's battle cry; it's not just
tomorrows; it's going to be here. He noted that they are dealing
with parity; that their association is committed to this. He
noted that some people will say that they are just greedy, that
they want to squeeze every last cent they can out of the City.
And that they are not concerned with anything else. He noted
that was not true. He noted that they want what's best for the
City. He noted that Guisiana told the Council that the profes-
sionalism of the department increased by leaps and bounds; by the
hiring of laterals and he believes that. He noted that when a
lateral is hired there is reduced training costs because after a
short orientation period he is ready to hit the streets; but what
happens when you hire a rookie? He noted as Sgt. Guisiana
stated, it takes 6 months of training and they in law enforcement
know that it takes 2 to 3 years before they have encountered
enough situations out there in those streets that you can be
considered an experienced officer. He noted that is a long time,
but he can blossom into an asset and then your only problem is to
keep that asset. He stated that maybe we'd like to go back to
the good old days when we didn't attract laterals; when we
couldn't keep young, good cops here because two or three years
under their belt and they're gone. They've gone to a department
that pays a better wage, that has better promotional opportuni-
ties. He stated that he can't help believe that the City does
want to return to those days. He noted that at a recent job fair
in Oakland, that was for law enforcement personnel, there were
over 6,000 openings across the State. Every major agency and
little agency from allover the State of California was repre-
sented. He noted that the State Department of Corrections has
announced that they intend to hire 5,000 correctional officers.
In this County, San Jose has announced that they plan to hire 50-
75 officers. The Sheriff's Department intends to hire 285
deputies. And he noted that if you throw in the other agencies
in this County, you're over 350 openings. And now that's the
competition. Where do you want to draw from? He noted that if
the City is going to stand a chance in that competition you have
to offer a competitive wage; there's no two ways about it. He
noted that they are here because the negotiation process did not
work. The majority of their members felt that they needed to
address Council personally, to make Council aware of their con-
cerns. He stated that cops are kind of cynical; that's a fact.
And there are some members that said they are wasting their time
being here; Council's decision is made and are really just giving
them time to get their concerns off their chest and that's it.
He noted maybe so, he doesn't know, but both sides want the best
for this City. He noted that Council has spent alot of money on
a new police building; on a new computer system and requests that
the Council spend a little money on the people that are in that
building and they're going to work with that computer system
because without the people Council doesn't have anything. He
further requested Council to listen to Dave Clisham because he is
going to show Council these figures that Mr. Avery or Mr. Booth,
prepared and show how close the City is; they believe they're
close and requests Council to please vote for the police officers
and approve their pay package that they are asking because when
Council does this they are voting for their officers, voting for
the citizens of this community and voting for the future of this
department.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions.
Councilman Palmerlee inquired of Officer Ramirez' reference
to in Gilroy there really isn't any way to move up and asks why
that is true in Gilroy and not in other cities.
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Officer Ramirez noted that one of the biggest problems,
actually an asset, there are young officers who maybe have been
promoted to sergeant. In the prior years everyone was leaving
and the young officers made rank right away. They are young,
they are just as old as he is, so they are going to be in their
positions for a long time. And unless Council plans to hire or
fire the Chief and the two Commanders, but there's really nothing
else. The oldest person is Sgt. Rowan and he has told him that
he's not leaving. So there's no way to go.
Mayor Hughan stated that the point is good that there
aren't vacancies here.
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Councilman Kloecker stated that he, and he doesn't think
anyone else here, believes that this session is a waste of time.
He thinks it's beneficial and a lot of it he has heard before in
one form or another, but he believes that it's always beneficial
to hear things first hand.
Officer Ramirez stated that he hopes that they can talk to
one another more often. He stated that he has never met some of
the Councilmembers and would like to know all the members so when
they have concerns they can discuss it on a one to one basis;
after all they are just trying to better the City.
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Mr. David Clisham, P.O.A.'s Negotiator, addressed the
Council and referred to the Mayor's statement that referred to
the concept of two sides and noted in a sense there are not two
sides, because everybody works for the City and they all are
attempting to work for the common good. He noted in negotiations
however, there are two sides. He noted that if one buys a car
and you have a car picked out, you walk onto the floor and the
salesman comes up to talk to you and if you're really interested
in buying that car, you start engaging in some form of negotia-
tions as a kind of give and take. The car salesman wants your
money and you want the car. And so you take about concepts, you
talk about figures. Most of us don't trust used car salesmen or
new car salesmen but we always buy cars nevertheless and we
always buy cars from a salesman, so we don't deal with the people
that we allegedly don't trust. You sometimes talk about how much
some kind of a delux package costs, or whitewall tires. He is
always amazed that the steering wheel is an option. He doesn't
know how you can have a steering wheel as some kind of an option.
He believes that what happened in negotiations here, at least
from their perception since June of 1986, is that there has been
absolutely no give and take at all. There has been only one
position, and he supposes as what he would describe as a minus
position, that's been articulated by the City and that's what has
caused this anger and frustration and why they are here tonight.
He stated that the negotiations have not gone smoothly. It's not
like buying a car where you finally arrive at a price and we both
make a deal and we shake hands and we work as a partnership. He
noted that they don't have a partnership on this deal yet and he
believes it's because of the nature of the negotiations. He
stated that he wants to explain that. He noted that last year's
negotiations were very important and they are partly described on
the board. He noted that on the third chart to his right it says
Two Year Package - July 1st 1986 or July 1, 1985 - 3% and then
it's got January 1, 1986 - 3.5%. He noted that they wanted at
least a 6 1/2% raise for the whole year; that was their bottom
line goal. But he noted that a year ago they compromised, be-
cause the City put in that two year package, a guarantee that the
CHP Plan would be implemented by July 1, 1986. He noted that
they compromised and felt that was reasonable. The City talked
about the cost of it, they analyzed the cost and they said that's
fine let's take it. It puts us to where we want to be on July 1,
1985, but it's six months late. So we've lost 6 months of that 6
1/2%. That's why you heard them talk about 4.8%. So they lost 6
months of a 3 1/2% raise and they did it as a compromise because
the City's negotiator said that the CHP Plan costs a lot of
money. He further noted that they also put in that contract that
there would be a salary reopener on July 1, 1986. They went for
a salary reopener because if all the salaries stayed the same
then in terms of comparability and in terms of parity then the
Association wouldn't need a raise on July 1, 1986. He noted that
p"'",
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a salary reopener is good for the City to a certain extent and it
is also good for them. He noted that if salaries do go up and if
there is alot of money available then they can try to get a
raise. And he noted that's how they went into negotiations in
June 1986. He noted that's what happened in salary reopeners,
the first, second, fifth, eighth and there were probably eleven
meetings, they did not talk about salary reopeners for one
minute, they talked about the CHP Plan. They were told that the
CHP Plan was so expensive that the City was not going to give the
officers a raise for the 1986-87 year. It was so expensive that
you can't give a raise and the CHP Plan at the same time. He
noted that's like going in to buying a car and you have the deal
all made and you go out the door to get your checkbook and you
come back in and the guy says the steering wheel was so expense
that we can't give you the tires. The deal of last year was
made, but they were forced to renegotiate the CHP Plan. All ten
or twelve meetings, however many there were. He noted that they
never once talked about real salary reopeners. He noted that
this raise as seen on the third chart that adds up to 15% is not
really 15%; the first raise is not 6 1/2 it's really 4 1/2 in
terms of money; 3 1/4% is not really 3 1/4% because it's the
payment of the employee's PERS pick-up which the City is not
really paying right now so that's really money that would have
been out of their pocket; it doesn't cost the City 3 1/4%, it
costs more like 2 1/2% because you don't have to pay that money
on overtime or on the actual overall retirement, there's all
kinds of costs saved at that 3 1/4%. He noted that it's a mutual
benefit both ways. He noted that 5.3% of the CHP Plan is some-
thing that's a cost to the City and it's not really a raise to
the employees. So even if you take any form of numbers and add
them up it can come up to 15% but it's not a real 15% increase on
the salary schedule. He stated that they felt at the same time,
that he wants to reemphasize that when they started negotiations
in June 1986 they did not expect at all to renegotiate the CHP
Plan. That was already in the package. They did not expect the
City to claim inability to pay because they knew that the City
had a lot of money. They did not expect the process to be diffi-
cult at all, because the City had money and because the salaries
in the County were up. He noted that may not mean much to
Council, because you are still talking about these 7 cities and
these 10 cities, but it means a lot as already explained. He
noted that when salaries go up around you, you have to take a
look at those salaries and make adjustments. He noted that
southern Santa Clara County probably has the highest salaries in
northern California and possibly in the State, but that's where
Gilroy is. He noted that Gilroy is not in Watsonville, Santa
Cruz, Los Angeles, or San Diego, right here in this County. He
stated that the salaries did go up, so they thought that it
wouldn't be hard to get a raise. He stated that when you are in
negotiations there are really two majors things that you look
at. One is comparability and that's the competitive wage; the
second thing is, can the employer afford to pay the kind of raise
that the officers are requesting. He shows charts of the
treasury surplus of the City compiled from the budget given to
them that explains how much money the City has. He noted that
from year to year the City is carrying approximately a $12
million surplus; coming into this year a $15 million dollar
surplus; in the 2 year budget, adopted this year, it projects a
$12 million dollar surplus that means money at least from their
analysis of the budget that the City has in the bank, not money
that you are going to spend; in bank accounts. He noted that it
is probably not all available for salaries, but when the overall
budget is below $30 million and you've got this much money in the
bank that means that this City has a lot of money. He stated
that he believes that the City should spend that money; that the
taxpayers expect the City to spend that money and doesn't know
why the City is keeping it in the bank. It's not the Council's
own savings account, it's not the taxpayer's saving account -
you're suppose to spend it or give it back to the taxpayers. He
further noted that it appears that the City has a lot of money.
He noted that the City of San Francisco has about a $2 billion
budget; it's the equivalent of the City of San Francisco keeping
$1 billion in the bank and that's the amount of money it appears
that the City of Gilroy has. He noted that about a week and a
half ago there was an article in the newspaper that the sales tax
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revenue was about doubled what was projected in the budget. He
noted that they were told at the beginning of negotiations that
the City was going broke and the figures that they were given
showed that the amount of revenue in the General Fund budget was
projected to decline a bit in the next two years; not a deficit
in the balance but it was declining. It wasn't declining even in
the projection 1/5th of the amount of money that this seemed to
be under estimated by the City's budget people. He noted that
the City projected for July, August, and Septemer 1986 over 1/2
million dollars in Sales Tax revenue and actually received over
$1 million; that's over 1/2 million dollars more in this years
budget that the City is realizing over what was projected. He
notes that he is not being critical, that's great, but it shows
that the City has a lot of money. He believes that they have
demonstrated that the City of Gilroy is certainly able to afford
the kind of increases requested. He refers to what the City of
Morgan Hill is paying its police officers. Top step Police
Officer as of July 1, 1986 was $29070.; the top step Police
Officer in February 1, 1987 is going up at $3,089.per mo. He
noted that Council can look at the figures and there is no way
that he is going to say that Mr. Avery's figures or Mr. Booth's
figures are wrong, but they don't project any kind of a longi-
tudinal thing. It doesn't say when those raises started, it
doesn't say when the next raise begins. It simply puts down one
figure and one date. And you can never look at just the one
figure and the one date. He again refers to the amount of money
that the City of Morgan Hill is going to pay its police officers
next February. He refers to the amount of money the City of
Gilroy is going to pay their officers as of February 1st.
........
The Mayor inquires if this is straight salary that Mr.
Clisham is talking about or salary and PERS.
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Mr. Clisham notes that it is salary and PERS. He noted
that what they tried to do is add the two figures together to
create some kind comparison and the $3,089. includes 9% contri-
bution of the employee's obligation to the PERS program. He
noted that they have had the CHP Plan for a long time so they
didn't have to buy it just this year. He noted that that has
become a standard item in all of the police packages which is why
they resented being reminded that it cost money this year when
they were trying to simply negotiate a salary reopener.
.'''..
Mayor Hughan notes that on their chart it shows Morgan Hill
getting a total compensation of $38068.
Mr. Clisham noted that is going up February 1st. He stated
that he has no doubt that those figures are accurate.
Mayor Hughan noted that the figures are higher than his
figures.
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Mr. Clisham stated that is total compensation. That
includes what it costs for a city to hire a police officer and
this is not a total comp figure. He noted that the figure for
Morgan Hill on the City's chart is going up by about $100. per
month on February 1 if not more. He noted that it's certainly
going up with the actual salary and the PERS contribution by
$119.00. He noted that they are going up because the County is
going up. The salaries in the County have gone up. He presented
a chart of what they were talking about in salary reopeners. He
noted that the average is $3,072. per month that was paid for
police officers in those cities; it's an average. He refers to
what the City is proposing to pay Gilroy police officers, that
the City proposes that the salary go between $28085. and $29073.
on January 1st; already the average police officer in the County
has been making this $3,072. for almost 6 months at this point; 5
months as of next Monday and 6 months as of January 1st; so that
the Gilroy Police Officer's salary right at this moment is $200
per month below the average; the City is fixing to raise it up to
within $100, but it's still $100 per month for six months. He
stated that even though the salary, because of the 3 1/4% pick-
up that the City is proposing, is going to raise the base salary
up to $29073., it's still behind what they consider the County-
wide average and when somebody comes in to look at the salary
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5444
structure, they're going to look at Milpitas and they're going to
compare it to Gilroy; they're going to look at Morgan Hill, Santa
Clara and these other cities and compare it to Gilroy. He noted
that some of these people at the beginning have no particular
loyalty to Gilroy unless they are unusual or have a relative
here; they're going to go to where the money is. He noted that
last year Milpitas changed its formula and added 1% to it because
they were having trouble competing and they have been on a
formula for a long time. They were having trouble competing with
Santa Clara and San Jose and some of these other cities. He
presented another chart that shows what the salary is right now
for Gilroy as of July 1 and how far below it was. He noted that
it doesn't show how far below the projected it is and you can't
really tell because on January 1 he knows that Milpitas is going
to go up and so is Santa Clara. He refers to what the City is
paying a Gilroy Police Officer right now. He believes that there
has really been no settlement this time, mainly because of the
figures that are on their posters, but he noted that not at one
point in their negotiations except for the cash deal and the
figure of $938. is the first time that he has heard that that
figure was going to be that. He noted that not once was that
amount of money, which they regard now, as to what they already
negotiated a year ago, not once was that same money offered to
them. It was not offered to them in those kinds of structures.
They never got one cent put on the table for salary reopeners.
He noted that once they saw that it was the City's position that
the CHP Plan was too expense, they tried to enter into some kind
of negotiations that would take some new money, maybe $25 or
$30,000. and combine it with the cost of the CHP Plan because it
didn't need to be implemented July 1, to try to combine that new
money and do something on January 1st that would raise the
salaries up to be competitive. He noted that not once was that
offered to them. He stated that he doesn't know why that
happened, but their perception of this entire process is
essentially that it has been a waste of time. He noted that the
figures that he has given are going to be out of date. It's one
thing to say what shall we do for January 1st, but as soon as you
bring it up to what the County-wide average is on July 1st, it's
already been 6 months out of date so they've lost 6 months
already. He noted that it's not even being brought up to the
County-wide as it existed on July 1st. He noted that he hopes
that the Council understands why there is so much anger on their
side of the table. He doesn't feel that they have been lied to,
he thinks that they have been told very directly right from the
very beginning that this City did not want to give any kind of a
raise to these officers and in terms of the officers it came
across the table, it took to the very end, until the amount of
money that was in their package already, it began to appear. He
stated that the $938.00 is a very emotional issue. The officers
do not want a cash settlement of the amount of money that they
negotiated for in last years contract. They want that put on the
salary schedule. He noted that the $938. cash won't bring
anybody to Gilroy as a recruit; they won't see that on the salary
schedule. He noted that they are urging and have urged the
negotiator to recommend that that money be put on the salary
schedule. He noted that that has been flat outright refused;
it's never been there; the actual figure was not produced until
after negotiations were over. He noted that they are still in
the process of trying to buy this car. They have not made a deal
yet. He noted that he is hopeful that a sale can be made. He
stated that there should be a meeting of the minds; they are all
trying to pull together. He noted that there are two sides right
now; there should be one side. He believes if this problem is
not resolved now it's going to go on. He noted that this deal
does not resolve the problem. It's resented bitterly because
there's no new money in there. There has been no salary negotia-
tions for this year; not any whatsoever. He further noted that
there is heavy resentment. He noted that at one time he was the
one that made the recommendation on two different options and
believed that it was a way to try to resolve the City's problem
of not wanting to have an amount of money rolled over into next
year's budget and believed that the recommended 6% raise for next
year would attempt to take care of that. He noted that he under
estimated the feeling of the rank and file however, and they
overwhelmingly voted that down. He noted that they voted it down
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5445
because they know that salaries at least at this point are going
to continue to go up in Santa Clara County. He noted that it is
a fact of life. He noted that it is something that they feel
strongly that Council has not dealt with. He noted that if the
salaries around us had not gone up, they wouldn't be here at this
meeting and ~he negotiations would not have been so difficult.
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He stated that it doesn't make any $ense to talk about City
Manager's 7 City Salary. He noted that obviously this Council
has been able to rec-ruit an outstanding City Manager following
that survey and you can't do that with poli~e officers because
there is a fundamental difference here. He stated that the City
does have a professional police force and good administration
here, but there's been a failure to communicate here and there
certainly has been a lack of understanding on their part as to
why there have never been any form of salary reopeners this year.
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!
The Mayor asked if there were any questions of Mr. Clisham.
Councilman Kloecker inquired as to what Mr. Clisham thought
the prevailing rationale was among the POA members for rejecting
the option which incorporate the raise on July 1, 1987.
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Mr. Clisham believed that the rationale was the following:
He thinks that they felt that they should get some kind of a
financial equivalent at the very least for what was already in
the contract. And that would have compromised that because it
would have had the City spend less money in this fiscal year; and
secondly he believes that it was rejected because they didn't
want to take the gamble that the salaries outside the City would
remain stable throughout the next two years, or at least the next
1 1/2 yrs. He noted that they felt by July 1, 1987 San Jose is
up for negotiation, and so if the County's salary (the Sheriff's
Office) is up for negotiation, Milpitas is scheduled to get
raises every six months, they simply didn't trust the economy
that the salaries would continue to escalate. He believes it was
for those two reasons that they rejected it. He stated that he
thought that they might not reject it because of the fact that it
would put the salary over and above where they wanted to go on
July 1, 1987. But he noted that he believes there has been a
four or five year history of bringing the officers up to some
form of parity, but late. It's one thing to talk about what
salaries are being paid on July 1st and then finally being given
that on November 1, or December 1, or January 1 and thereby
losing four or five months. It's one thing to do that but they
would have lost for a whole year. They would have lost $150. per
month for a whole year, and they feel that that kind of a
sacrifice wasn't enough to be put into an additional third year
of a new contract. He stated that he thought it was a good deal
when he first looked at it. But noted that he was bombed at the
membership meeting and noted that he was glad to get out of there
alive; and he wasn't wearing a gun.
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Mayor Hughan commented that they do not accept the $12
million as being available in the General Fund and noted that a
lot of that money almost all of that money is money that cannot
by law be spent on anything that is not already been designated
to be spent on. It's enterprise funds, depreciation funds, those
funds are by law not available for salaries.
,..-
Mr. Clisham noted that he understands that. He also noted
that the sales tax revenue is available to spend and when under
1/2 million dollars is under-estimated for one quarter that in
itself is a source of funding for whatever you want to do. He
noted that when you're talking about a major responsibility of a
city is to hire and maintain a police department and keep its
morale high, that should be one of the Council's options to take
a look at those funds and see what you can do with them.
--
Officer Cooke referred to the question of extending the
contract by one year with the 5 or 6% raise, another real problem
that the Association saw was that they would be giving up their
right to negotiate other items in June. It would have been two
years already since they negotiated and it would have been three
to negotiate for other benefits other than salaries. This would
have to be given up and that is a lot to ask. He further noted
5446
that last year during negotiations the POA did contact several
Councilmembers and did talk with them about what they wanted to
give them last time. At that time the Councilmembers were very
concerned about the possible closing of the canneries which would
have resulted in a reduction of the 5% energy use tax and were
asked to bear with them. The POA did bear with Council and the
canneries are still here. He further re-emphasized the cash
bonus that the membership is absolutely 100% negative in receiv-
ing a cash bonus. He noted that they came here to negotiate in
June and tried to negotiate earlier but couldn't get to for
salary; this was a salary reopener and they wanted salary and
they still want salary. He noted that Watsonville right now has
six openings. He noted that they have one or two background
investigators from their association and asks their Association
President how many hours does it take to do a background. (He
responded approximately 80 hours). Officer Cooke noted that is
the investigators portion, plus there is a polygraph, psycholo-
gical, physical. He noted that if the City had to hire six
people at one time the police department wouldn't have any detec-
tives working, because as it stands now the City takes a detec-
tive out of his position to do background investigations. He
further noted that if a detective is taken off the street for 6
weeks there will be a lot of people upset because the City only
has four detectives. He noted that if a quarter of the
detectives are taken out of the office to do backgrounds what
happens to the other cases that need to be investigated. He
noted that one of the people that Watsonville is doing a back-
ground on is someone who left the Gilroy Police Department some
years ago. He noted that he used to be a used car salesman and
they had all hoped that he would go back to that. He noted that
Watsonville is considering hiring him and he believes that the
City would never consider hiring him. He noted that non-sworn
personnel in the Association are also represented here tonight.
He noted that they have been offered a 3.25% PERS pick-up. He
noted that he believes that would make them the only miscella-
neous personnel in the City that have to pay any portion of their
retirement. He noted that the City pays retirement for the
miscellaneous, the Attorney, some people 7, some people only 5%.
He noted that the 7 Cities for the Department Head salaries were
used and one can see where the City had to go to get a department
head; not from one of those cities; the City had to go out of the
State. He noted that before the Council imposes something upon
the POA and it's too late to do anything about it they would like
to have the opportunity just the members of the association, the
select few and the members of the Councilor a few, to sit down
without Mr. Avery and without Mr. Clisham and talk this out
because they don't want to be cut off from the Council again. He
noted that there are other people present that came and want to
speak.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions of Officer
Cooke. There were none. The Mayor asked if there was anyone
else that would like to speak.
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Robert Cicero, Deputy Sheriff for 13 years, resident of
Gilroy over 3 years, noted that he left San Jose because he got
tired of the crime. He noted that he found Gilroy and was very
much pleased with the City and with the City's Peace Officers,
noting that they are very professional and make living here a
pleasure. He noted that he works a patrol unit at night, a one
car, so if he needs help he has to call on whoever is available.
He noted fortunately for him when he has had to call the City's
Police Department, they have come with a lot of expertise, ...
professionalism and they have literally saved him out of many
life threatening situations. He noted that the City is gifted ...
because they have the quality and caliber of people. He noted
that the charts do not include the salaries of the sheriffs. He
noted that this year with his overtime he will be earning more
than any officer in the City of Gilroy; he noted that they have
deputies that will earn more than the City's Chief of Police;
deputies of $80,000-$90,000 annually. He noted that there are
numerous deputy sheriffs that are willing to give up that job to
come and work for the City, but they are not crazy, and will not
turn in their pay check and look and see what the City is
r 11 4'-7
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offering their personnel, because they have families and bills to
pay too. He noted that they are willing to give up some but
don't want to get stuck out there in the cold. He noted that the
City is fortunate to have the expertise, laterals and they lost a
lot of their personnel to the City's Police Department and the
City got what the County really needed. He noted that they don't
want the City to make the same mistake and lose them to somebody
else. He noted that it's going to happen. He noted that they
couldn't keep them with their salary and asks what makes the City
think that they will keep them with what is being offered here.
He noted that he looked at the City about a year and one half ago
and since he lives in the City and is a patrol deputy would like
very much to enforce the laws within the City that he resides,
but can't in all good conscientiousness tell his wife and family
that he is willing to give up what he has and take a pay cut and
then have nothing else to offer them. He noted that there is no
positive feed-back between the POA and Council. He stated that
he can't in all good conscientiousness do that. He noted that he
is not alone; it's officers from the Sheriff's Office, San Jose
and other agencies. They want to live in a small community,
Gilroy and this area. He noted that there are alot of officers
from different agencies that would like to come to Gilroy but
they look at this and they see the problems that they have with
the City's Association and they say forget it. They will go
somewhere else where there isn't a pay problem. He noted that
the City can't expect his department to compete with Hollister or
Seaside, Watsonville and yet he and other officers would be
willing to come and work for Gilroy with a fair wage, a fair
contract. He noted that would be the only way that the City
would be able to attract them.
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Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions of Mr.
Cicero. There was no comment from anyone.
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Officer Ron Latham, POA President, addressed the Council
and noted that a great deal of time has been spent this evening,
basically speaking about pay parity and comparing theirselves
with other salaries. He noted that he too is one of those
laterals from the Sheriff's Office back in 1981 when they were
probably a good percentage of the laterals the City got were
during that time frame. He requested that Chief Cowart give some
of the inside or the benefits of being able to hire people with
experience and do to being able to pay a comparable worth
compared to other agencies, can attract those people here.
""".,,,,-
Mayor Hughan noted that Council did hear from Sergeant
Guisiana who explained quite extensively what the problems were
with hiring new people, and how much training and cost that would
be. She noted that this is basically the POA's Hearing at this
time. She inquired as to what cities the POA is comparing
salaries with at this time.
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Officer Latham noted that they are comparing with all of
the Cities in Santa Clara County with the exception of the
Sheriff's Department and Sunnyvale; the reason because the
Sheriff's Department has a lot of different pay scales built in
for hazardous duty for working the jail; night time differentials
and Sunnyvale is both fire and police combined. He noted that
Sunnyvale has a very high tax base and has been known for being
one of the highest paying agencies in the County. He noted that
job description-wise, they wanted to stay basically with police
departments with the same functions.
.......
Mayor Hughan noted that they are eliminating quite a few of
the small cities because many contract with the Sheriff's Depart-
ment and inquires as to what cities are not being considered.
Officer Latham stated that the cities that the Sheriff's
Office contracts with and were not compared with were Cupertino,
Monte Sereno, Saratoga and Los Altos Hills.
Mayor Hughan asked why the POA has rejected basically the
ten cities survey that show them currently at parity.
~\44g
Officer Latham noted that one of the biggest problems, is
that in Santa Clara County they are subject to a higher tax base;
paying a flat 7% as compared to 6 or 6 1/2% with other outlying
cities. He noted that the second problem that they had was that
during compiling the package they did surveys and as far as hous-
ing costs compared with other jurisdictions such as Hollister,
Seaside, Santa Cruz, i.e. the average median cost of housing in
Santa Cruz was $110,000., about the same for areas of Seaside and
Watsonville. He noted that the median price in Gilroy was
approximately $140,000. He stated that they feel that that is a
big difference; to be able to buy and live in Gilroy they feel
that it is much more expensive than it would be in Watsonville or
Hollister or other areas. He noted that their main concern since
it costs them that much money to live in this County that they
should be compared with other agencies within the County since
they are basically paying the same for housing as all the other
agencies are.
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Councilman Palmerlee inquired as to how far apart were they
when negotiations ended and what separated same.
Officer Latham stated that probably $100.00 per month,
somewhere in that area.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any more questions. There
was no comment and she asked if there was anyone else that would
like to speak.
Mr. Thomas Carmichael, 7700 Santa Barbara Drive, addressed
the Council noting that he is a father and businessman. He noted
a hit and run accident involving his son and spoke with the
Officer that made the report and stated that they don't have
enough time to go after something that isn't fact. His son was
able to identify the vehicle and Secret Witness can't put that in
the newspaper because the only thing that they can put into the
newspaper is that which enough evidence can result in a convic-
tion. He noted that as a father that hurt him and he went to the
newspaper and offered a $500 reward. The newspaper inadvertently
omitted the phone numbers. He noted another incident that
occurred of a dishonest person no longer under his employment.
He noted that he is working with a division of the detectives and
they have given all of the time that they have and he believes
that they don't have enough time to take care of him. He noted
that he is a taxpayer, a businessman that pays license fees. He
stated that he believes that the City has a first class City
Council, Fire Department, City Manager, everything in Gilroy is
first class. He further proposed to Council that they think
strongly before a first class Police Department is taken away.
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...
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions. There was
no comment. She asked if there was anyone else that would like
to speak.
Mr. Clisham responded to the question as to how far they
are apart. He believes that a part of their problem is what's
before Council was never really offered to them; at all, not
those figures. He noted that what they wanted Council to do was
take that $938., which represents about $37,000. and if that had
been offered to them they would have calculated it out and said
put it on the salary schedule. If it is put on the last 6
months, we would take a look at that. If you then determine that
it costs about $16,000 for a 1% raise, if you took a mere $32,000
and imposed that in July or August or September, that would bring
them up to where they wanted to go. He stated that he is not
trying in any way to carry out negotiations in public, but is
just using that for an example. He noted that they calculated
that if the total budget is looked at and the total amount of
money spent on police services, number one. Number two, he noted
that it costs about $40,000. to hire somebody if they are
inexperienced. He stated that it costs $40,000. more than if a
lateral is hired. He stated that if 75% of the $40,000. is
taken, which will be spent because the City will have to recruit
somebody in May and put that on the salary schedule with the
$938.00 he believes that the Council would probably have some
kind of a deal. He noted that they never got to that point. He
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~)4 49
has no idea why they didn't. He noted that the kind of figures
that came across the table at them fell far short of that the
entire time.
The Mayor asked if there was anyone else that would like to
speak.
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Officer Cooke, Negotiations Chairman, thanked the Council
for their time and noted that what Mr. Clisham said, they never
had any figures, they never had any offer. He noted that if the
figures that are on the board were taken they would have been
close, but they didn't know how close they were because they
didn't have an offer. He noted that they were never told of the
$938.00. He stated that he thought he heard Mr. Avery say that
there was something similiar to this proposed before and they
never had any dollar amount ever proposed. He noted that the big
problem that they have with any cash bonus is that it is not on
the survey and they were suppose to have reopeners for salary to
take effect July 1st. Salary was never discussed, the Associa-
tion discussed salary and what they wanted but they never got
anything in return.
.'_',;,'"
Mayor Hughan stated that the $938. was just a number that
came up because the POA wasn't able to get this in July and since
that amount had already been budgeted for the CHP Plan and will
not take effect until January 1st, it's what seems fair for the
POA to have because they didn't get it when they should have. It
was noted that it is just a one time bonus in lieu of the CHP.
Officer Cooke stated that regardless the bonus is not going
to be in the salary and that is where they would like to see it.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any other questions.
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Officer Don Kludt noted that the bonus is the money that
the City obligated to pay the Association members in last years
contract and is money that is owed them already because of the
committment by the Council last year. He noted that this is not
a bonus and stated that he resents the fact that it is called a
bonus; it's money owed him, it's a payment. He stated that all
they are requesting is to give the bonus in a salary percentage
and the members would agree to it. He stated that the $938.
forget the bonus. It's owed money and give them a pay increase.
,,-.",
Councilman Kloecker noted that he agrees with Officer
Kludt; that it is improperly termed a bonus, it's termed a
payment.
Officer Kim Merrill addressed the Council noting that he
has been here 9 years and the City has treated him very well
during that time. He stated that right now is the lowest point
he has ever seen the Police Department. He stated that in 1979
was the second lowest point. He noted that they were losing
people on the average of four a year. He stated that if this
continues and if they feel that they don't have any input to the
City Council they are going to leave. He noted that he has
considered it and so have many of his fellow workers. He stated
that he believes that they have a serious problem unless they
start communicating and noted that they haven't been.
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The Mayor asked if there were any questions. There was no
comment. She asked if there was anyone else that would like to
speak on the matter. There was no further comment. Mayor Hughan
gave the audience the opportunity to stand or clap for support to
their spokespersons. The audience responded by clapping and
standing.
""""'"
Mayor Hughan thanked all for refraining from demonstrations
during the presentations by the speakers. She noted that there
may be some questions that were asked that need to be answered by
Mr. Avery. She asked if Council wished to have any questions
that were brought up during the presentation clarified. She
inquired about the question of the 3 1/4% being offered sometime
during the negotiations and was an offer that was made.
c: ,-1 C, In
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Mr. Avery addressed the Council noting that a series of
offers were made in terms of picking up portions of the
employee's retirement contributions, during the negotiations. He
noted that the offer which the City accepted which involved
picking all of it up came from Mr. Clisham. He noted that the 3
1/4% is obviously a pay raise. He noted that employees have
presented a series of figures which take retirement pick-ups and
add them to the salaries to show what the true salary is. He
further stated that was offered in negotiations, agreed to in
negotiations and is a pay raise. He noted that the City's on-
going cost in agreeing to do that in addition to the retirement
plan is approximately $50,000. per year.
Councilman Palmerlee asked if the 3 1/4% as opposed to the
2% at 50 was not part what had been promised as of July 1st.
...
,.",.
Mr. Avery answered in the affirmative.
The Mayor stated that traditionally the City had paid
5 3/4% of retirement and now to go to 9 the City is offering a
whole 9%?
Mr. Avery stated that would be the entire employee's
contribution.
The Mayor asked if there was any further clarification
anyone would like. There was no further comment.
Mr. Clisham addressed the Council and noted that what Mr.
Avery has said is not incorrect but it is not complete at all.
He noted that that money was the cost to the City of the CHP for
the whole year and they didn't get the CHP for the whole year.
He stated that it wasn't new money. They started in June and
were told that the CHP Plan was too extensive and they should
have done something crazy then, but they didn't. They said
alright it's so expensive let's take some of that money and put
it on the salary schedule. He stated that from their point of
view it was already their money. It was simply renegotiating
what they had already done. He stated that it was no new money.
He stated that if salary reopeners didn't occur it's because this
is what they already had going in. It's rearranged and they like
it better, but it didn't do anything for the salary schedule. It
has put the Officers in a position of being $200. per month less
than the County-wide average for six months and $100.- less for
six months. He stated that is what he means that there was no
salary offer over and above the money that they had already
negotiated and was already in the contract. He stated that this
hasn't cost the City a cent over what the City had planned to do
a whole year ago in buying the CHP Plan. He noted that not one
nickel was spent in addition to what the City had going in July
1, 1986. He stated that it has been a waste of time for them to
even sit down and talk.
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Councilman Palmerlee stated that what Mr. Clisham is saying
that the 3 1/4% was not additional money on the City's part?
Mr. Clisham stated that is correct. He further stated that
what the City is doing is adding the thing twice. He stated that
the 5.3% is the cost of the CHP Plan for a whole year and the 3
1/4% is part of that 5.3%. He further stated that the $938.00 is
part of the 5.3%. He stated that's where that money came from.
It came from money that they had alredy made a deal for a whole
year ago. He stated that they bought the whole car a year ago
and now the City is selling it back to them at the same price.
That's why they feel that they got left out of the process. He
stated that one nickel hasn't been spent for salary reopeners;
the City has rearranged the money that was already given.
...
...
Mr. Avery stated that cost figures shown for that package
represent the cost when fully implemented. For example, a 6 1/2%
was not given July 1st, the City gave 3 1/2% July 1 and then 3% .
in January. He noted that cost 5% for the first 12 months and
thereafter, it cost the City the full 6 1/2%. He noted that
similiarly the 2% at 50 retirement plan cost the equivalent of a
5.3% pay increase. He noted that they are not starting it until
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Landscape
Maint .Dist.
Adjournmt.
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January so that halves their cost for the first year, but when
it's implemented in January the cost is 5.3% on-going; same with
the 3 1/4%. He noted that this package over two years when
implemented costs the City, on-going in excess of 15%. It
doesn't cost that much over the 2 year period but it costs that
much when implemented. He stated that was done very conscien-
tiously because the Council wanted them to structure the package
to be of the maximum advantage to employees. He stated that if
all that could be afforded was 5% last year Council allowed them
to split it so that they raised salaries by 6 1/2% when fully
implemented. He noted that if he tells an employee group that
they could have 1% in July or 12% June 1st, even though they both
cost 1% for the year, everyone understands that it is to the
benefit of the employee to take the 12% June 1st because it's the
on-going benefit to the employee and the on-going cost to the
agency.
Mayor Hughan asked if there were any questions or
clarifications that Council needs. The Mayor stated that there
are several options. The Council can take a unilateral position
supporting their package presented by the Negotiators to the
Police Officers' Association and which was not accepted or can go
back into negotiations.
The City Attorney noted that Council could also go back
into a Closed Session based upon the information presented at
this hearing and can go back into consultation with the City's
representative.
Motion was made by Councilman Kloecker seconded by
Councilman Palmerlee and carried that Council conduct a Closed
Session with their negotiator to discuss the matter and take
everything at the hearing under consideration prior to making a
decision on the matter. It was noted that said closed session
would follow the Special Meeting Agenda, time permitting.
At 8:46 p.m. the Mayor declared a Recess and reconvened the
meeing at 8:59 p.m.
Scoping/Defining Landscape and Maintenance District was
presented and further explained by City Administrator Baksa
noting options and alternatives.
Mr. Philip D. Assaf, Bond Attorney, explained the procedure
required to form the proposed district.
Discussion was had by Council on the matter.
Motion was made by Councilman Kloecker seconded by Council-
man Palmerlee and carried that the City Administrator obtain
estimated costs for engineering the following alternatives for a
proposed Landscape & Maintenance District: $200,000.00 - Gas Tax
benefitting; $35,000.00 - Gas Tax/Traffic Signal Maintenance;
$60,000.00 - General/Street Sweeping; and $170,000.00 - General/
Street Trees.
At 9:36 p.m. the Mayor adjourned to a Closed Session
regarding Meet & Confer Matters and reconvened the meeting at
10:40 p.m. and further adjourned.
Respectfully